VIDEOFullInterviewBothRachelandMandi102224
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[00:00:00] Do you consider yourself to be deeply empathetic? If you do, then you definitely want to stick around and listen to the conversation that we're going to have today with Rachel. , thank you, Rachel, for being here. You are so welcome. I am glad to be here. I love talking about all things empaths and sensitive people. So yeah, thanks for having me. You are welcome and thank you to those who are either watching or listening to us today. So today I am gonna interview Rachel Hudson, who is a certified life coach, as well as a yoga and meditation teacher, and a reiki master. She's going to share with us some tips and techniques for how to have a daily meditative practice. And my name is Mandy Gardner. I'm the founder of Holistic Evolution Shala. I am a trauma informed Ashtanga yoga teacher, as well as a DBT skills coach.
I teach women who are recovering from trauma, [00:01:00] how to stay calm. So that they can overcome addiction and build supportive relationships. Rachel can you tell us a little bit about your background and what really led you to helping others?
Wow so as far as being highly sensitive and empathic I was the, okay, I was the kid in kindergarten who cried every single day except for one day. Most people are like, oh, is it the last day of school? And I'm like, nope, it was the first day of school because I thought kindergarten. It was one day and then I was like, so shocked that I had to go back.
I just, I was so sensitive. I was overwhelmed and this is in the seventies. So nobody really, nobody, I don't think anybody really cared. They're like, you're going to kindergarten. You're doing the [00:02:00] thing. I was overwhelmed with. Everything, it's such a young age and I was always told I was too sensitive.
All the way up until into adulthood and regular jobs, I just felt everything. And I didn't have the words and I didn't know that it was, I just thought there was something wrong with me. Yeah I can relate to that. Yeah. So how far back are we going? No, that's perfect.
That's wonderful. So my background I started doing I know we've got a yoga thing in common, but I started doing yoga in 1990. I think it was three or four. I had a knee injury and I had a VHS tape. Patricia Walden and Rodney Yee, and I was like, I'm going to get my knee healed. And I was like, what is this?
This is amazing. I felt my brain felt a little bit calmer. I felt like [00:03:00] I was able to manage emotions. finally, I'd always said I wanted to become a yoga teacher and then I'm in East Texas for anybody who doesn't know East Texas in the nineties are like yoga, wasn't a thing, it's I got a lot of weird looks and eye rolls.
And so I just practiced in secret kind of, but I eventually went to my first teacher training in 2000 with a gentleman by the name of Lex Gillen, a lot of people haven't heard of him, but a lot of people have heard of Ram Dass. He was actually his yoga teacher and it just blossomed for me.
I eventually went to Bikram's yoga training in 2009 and I opened a yoga studio in 2011. When I closed that up 2017, my husband used to call me the emotional bartender.
Everybody just tells you their problems and it was just [00:04:00] like, I think at empaths or people that are really sensitive, we have this tendency to be all things to all people. That's just how this grew. And then the next chapters were a woman came in and she was like, Hey, can I do a free Reiki workshop. And I said, of course, and then that led me to becoming a Reiki master eventually. I also taught a lot of meditation along the way and then eventually. I wanted to help and bring all of my skills into this coaching container.
And so that's really what I do. I do one on one coaching. I talk to a lot of sensitive people. Can I ask what really inspired you to focus on empaths and HSPs? Okay, perfect question. I always thought something was wrong with me because I was just so emotional and I don't even remember how I came across [00:05:00] Dr.
Judith Orloff in all of her books and teachings. I think there was a book, it was written probably 20 years ago. It's called Positive Energy Practices. And then she was like, I'm an empath. And it had a lot to do with meditation and I was like, wait. And so I really, I just went down the rabbit hole and was like, this is me.
This is the way I've been living. Orloff is wonderful. She's amazing. And I had a kind of a hang up about the empath thing. I'm like, I don't know, I'm making this up and her being a psychiatrist and being in the medical field and she would talk about her struggles as an empath and someone who had to use the other side of their brain and how she helped other.
Empathic people. I think that's really what opened it up for me. And I just started putting my feelers out there. [00:06:00] Sometimes I'm like, this world is just too crazy for me. That's what it feels like, but she's been really helpful.
I've taken. So many of her courses, I think I have all of her books and it's just been a real grounding presence in what I do and how I help people. Awesome. Yeah. I read the book. I believe it's called the empaths, survival guide. That one, I really loved the guide.
She's got the, what is it called? The Thriving is an empath and it's like a, it's almost like the daily devotional type of book. It's just every single day she's got a message for you and I'm like, this is beautiful. I really enjoyed her visualizations and that was probably the one thing I really took away from it was helping to visualize this safety bubble, to really protect my own energy.
That was one that really stuck with me. Yeah. Great. Thank you so much for sharing. So [00:07:00] moving on. So talking about meditation, most of us know that meditation can be such a powerful tool for people who are highly sensitive to external stimuli. So what are some practical techniques that highly sensitive people or empaths can use to calm and center our minds?
So meditation techniques, I feel like I have a whole library of them, but I'll start very basic with, I like to think of this as meditation. If you're really sensitive, I know there's a lot of us out there. We feel like we're pulled in a bazillion different directions. I like to think of meditation as one of my anchors that's going to ground me back.
Into the present moment. So it keeps me from like future tripping and then going into the past. But that's what we do as humans, our human brains. So techniques, I know everybody on the planet's probably heard of the box breathing, [00:08:00] but I want to just say that.
You can do it a couple of different ways. So think of this as an, one of your anchors and you always have your breath. You don't need anything special. I call it the 16 second breathing and it's the inhale for four, holding for four, exhale for four, and then hold that out for four.
Now I like to anchor this to something. So if I'm like standing in line at the supermarket, or if I'm at a long red light, it's my cue to breathe. Also, if I catch myself just picking up my phone because I'm uncomfortable in a situation, I'm like, Nope, this is your time to go with the 16 seconds.
And I would encourage anybody to 16 seconds. Really, we've all probably got a timer on our phone or our watch. It's very calming. Another really helpful, and this is like you can do it anywhere.
Nobody would even know you're doing it. The quiet continuous [00:09:00] breathing also known as infinity breathing. And it's the infinity symbol. Or a figure eight and on the inhale at the top of the infinity symbol, you're going to just inhale at the top and then just going to draw back down. And then you're going to exhale and then go back up and go back down.
And it's really calming. And another one, setting a timer for a minute on your phone or your watch and. Watching your breath and paying attention to the space between the inhale and the exhale. That's helped me tremendously. One more and a bonus.
One more is, it doesn't have a lot to do with breathing, but it is just the basic five senses. So what I really want to drive home is use what you already have. Like you don't need to go out and buy a bunch of [00:10:00] stuff or sign up for a bunch of apps, which I also love, In the moment you have your five senses.
So wherever you are right now, you can, I just like to scan the body. What am I hearing? I can hear the air conditioner going on in the background. And what am I seeing? What am I smelling? Tasting maybe? That helps bring you back to the present moment, right? Yeah. And then for getting emotionally heightened, that's a great one to come back to your senses.
To keep you from, I like to use the word future tripping cause that's what we do. We're like, I'm worried about all these things that are going to happen, but bringing it back in. And if you have a place where your body gets a little bit staticky, like for me, it's usually right in the top of my chest, lower neck, I'll usually touch that part of the body.
And then at the end of the day, this is very interesting. [00:11:00] And y'all, this is not a power walk. This is a walking meditation. So just whether it's two mailboxes down from your house and back, or if you're going just for like maybe a 30 minute stroll, this is.
Definitely something that anybody can do using the five senses. Now, there's a special time of day early in the morning, and I know not a lot of people are up for that. So I'll focus on the end of the day that kind of magical time of day where the sun's about to go down and the light has changed, colors outside.
So there's a different smell, there's a different texture. Going on outside, the humidity's different, so you can use your five senses as you're doing just a basic walking meditation. You can count your steps, so anything that's going to anchor you into the [00:12:00] present moment. I just want to drive home that it doesn't have to be complicated.
It's accessible to everybody. Yes, it absolutely is. Thank you for that. The one thing I wanted to ask is do you ever catch yourself holding your breath? Because I know I do like when I'm stressed out or nervous or thinking about something I find myself just like gasping for air because I was holding my breath, right?
And so those are the moments that I recognize that's okay That's when I'm gonna start my little breathing exercise like that counted box breathing to bring me back to my body is that something that you can relate? I love this story because I can giggle at it now, but about 15 years ago, I was in a sales job and I loved it because it was restaurant sales and I used to work the restaurant industry, but I was really stressed out.
I had gone to the doctor. And she just looked at me and she said, you're just hardwired for anxiety. Here's a pill. And I believed her. And then I was like, wait a [00:13:00] second. I believed this person who I thought was in charge of my health. I did that for about six months and I'm like, what am I doing?
I have all the tools. So now I have to, I catch myself. I don't think I'm hardwired for anxiety. I think we all have anxious situations and we also, as a reminder to everybody, we also have this tool and it's just like you said, you just notice, like I used to tell my yoga students Are your shoulders acting as earrings right now?
Let's try to pull that down for a little while. And really, instead of breathing up into the top of the throat, which is really shallow, can we fill up the lungs very slowly? That pranayama breathing is good for the lungs, good for the respiratory system, and it's good to calm your nervous system down.
So yeah, I still Catch myself. I did it [00:14:00] yesterday. I found my dogs found a mouse in the backyard. And of course I flipped out. And then I was like, okay, it's a mouse. You can get it, you can deal with it And you can also breathe. It's not an emergency like a lot of us walk around with everything's an emergency, right?
So I think the important thing to really drive home is that we always have our breath to turn to when we're in those moments where we're noticing that we're either anxious or, freaking out overboard about something and, coming back to the breath, coming back to the senses, to really tap into that present moment.
Really like physically taking a couple of steps back. Is this a real emergency? no, this is just this thing that happened. My meditation teacher that I've trained with since 2017. He always said stress is how we respond when our needs are not met.
And I want to add to that, when our perceived [00:15:00] needs are not met, like how many times do we freak out because something isn't, immediate, that's not our needs, our basic needs. A lot of us, it's taken care of, but it's stress is how we respond when our perceived needs are not met. Like I'm impatient because people are taking too long in front of me at the store or I'm in traffic.
Traffic's not going away, right? It's how we're going to respond. That's not our, we need to get home. But also we can't, we know that's the number one thing, traffic and like weather that we freak out about. And it's also the thing that we cannot control. We can maneuver, we can go back inside if it's raining, but it's also still going to rain.
And so it's just sometimes it's our thoughts about it. And our perspective overreact, or there's this emotional contagion. Yeah, that's great. Thank you. All right, let's move on to the [00:16:00] next question.
Okay. So for someone who is new to meditation, what advice would you give to ease them into practice? And how does this help with emotional grounding?
I would say I was thinking about this earlier. And I did take just a few little notes about going back to, I'm going to use the word anchor again, like using what you already have. You don't need an elaborate setup that comes later when you've been doing this for a long time.
And it's fun to buy the meditation things, but. Start small. You probably have a bed. Okay. My meditation teacher. if you wake up and you're like, I don't have time, sit, lean against the headboard or lean against the pillows and just start with breathing. Close your eyes.
I would say, remind yourself that comfort is everything because if it's not comfortable, [00:17:00] You probably won't stick with it. Like nobody has to sit in a Lotus position. We all don't have the flexi knees that we used to just starting small, use what you have, like your watch, your timer anything on your phone.
Yeah. You can download the apps. Like I said what was your second question? Oh, just like, how do you help new people who are, how to help people who are new to meditation? What advice would you give them? I think some of the biggest things that can really hold us back are the limiting beliefs, I have heard a lot of people say, Oh, I can't meditate, and so that right there is this very limiting belief or they're very uncomfortable breathing.
I'll teach courses and in the beginning, we'll start with a mindfulness practice where we do a breathing exercise. And there's always one or two people who really dislike it.
And so for those people, do you have any [00:18:00] advice to help soften them to be a little bit more open to trying it or maybe shifting that belief that it doesn't work or that it won't work for them. So I used to teach meditation workshops and the biggest thing was like, let's just go through some of these myths of meditation.
We've seen the monk meditating in the mountains. Nice image. It's great. But we are, in yoga, they call it we're householders. We are busy. We live in this crazy time. And one of the myths is something special is supposed to happen.
And I will say, one of my yoga teachers, I'm just stealing all the things, breathe, everything is optional. Sitting in meditation is uncomfortable. Nobody loves it all the time. This is part of the work, so you don't get stressed.
think about I like to use the [00:19:00] benefits of meditation and then flip it around. What is really going on in society? do you have high blood pressure? Probably most people I know have high blood pressure. A lot of people do. High cholesterol knee jerk response. Again, the waiting in line, how impatient have we gotten, and I've got my notes up here. It improves concentration when you meditate. Because it's a practice. That's why I say, listen, if you have to start with 16 seconds, great. You've done a meditation, And then explore. I like to think about it is we've got all these tools to meditate.
They might not, you might not really love All of the tools that we have, but I give everybody all the tools. And it's like trying on the outfit. Like sometimes that uncomfortable sweater, you're just like, Oh no, this just doesn't feel good. Oh, my yoga teachers used to say, if you don't like this, try it 10 [00:20:00] times before you really decide.
And for all the people who are like, no, you don't understand. I have ADHD. I'm like, guess what? I have ADHD too. And it has really been the best, biggest help for me to meditate. The more you do it, you're just going to do it automatically. But yeah, there's a lot of myths out there that, it's only, I'm not, I don't want to meditate cause I'm not good at it or I can't.
And I'm like you can breathe. So if you can breathe, you can meditate. For those of you who love coffee, I'll give you a little tip. You can use those five senses, make your cup of coffee. You can hear it, you can smell it. And I park my booty into one of these bedrooms in the house and I meditate with my coffee.
No joke. it's still meditation. I get to sip. And it's just anchor that thing, what are you already doing? And when you first wake up, your brain is in and I'm not going to know specifically, but like your brain waves are at [00:21:00] their mellow state, right?
Before you've like fully waken up. And so that is a more meditative state. And it's actually perfect to do it with coffee because you're still in that sort of sleepy, almost awake stage. A little bit quiet in the house.
My dogs have not really even woken up. They're like, just hanging out, make my coffee and I march back there and just sit. And some days I cannot even stand to be with myself. And I just want to say that every day is going to look a little different. My meditation teacher, he has these two funny little, I think they're called acronyms, RPM, rise, pee, meditate.
So you get up, do your stuff and then meditate. And then R A W. Is right after work, the two magical times to meditate. I did have a client and she's I just can't meditate. I don't have any time. And she just gave me her list of things that she had to do And I'm like, okay.
Do you ever find yourself like waiting? She's Oh my gosh, I have to wait on my kids to get out of school. I'm in the [00:22:00] pickup line. And I'm like, how about while you're waiting on your kids, just try two minutes, set a timer, two minutes and go to the 16 second breathing. I'm like, let's just start super, super easy.
And then we can grow from that. She's got a great meditation practice. Yeah, that's perfect. Yep. Just to find those few minutes in the day that you can squeeze it in. And I know we were all super busy and it's almost like a necessity at this point. Yeah, absolutely. So how do you think that meditation has increased your self awareness?
We're essentially recommending meditation for people who are highly sensitive and empathic as a form of coming back to yourself, coming back to the present moment, being able to deal with intense emotions or triggers, wonder what's your personal experience of, have you had any aha moments in [00:23:00] meditation that helped you to realize oh, having these little moments of clarity, what's been your experience with that?
Such as life, we all go through the things, whether it's family, work, the whole thing, when I'm in meditation and I think it reminds me that I'm just going to put it like this. I'm so onto myself and my BS when I meditate.
And it's AKA self awareness, but I'm onto myself. I know these little emotional tells these little things that I get a little snippy and even in meditation, I'm like, Oh yeah, but I remember that one time where he pushed me down on the playground when I was. 12, all these weird things start coming up in meditation.
It can be quite uncomfortable. it could be from 20 years ago. And sometimes these memories just surface it's a great way to just [00:24:00] pause. It's a great way to and this is coming up and I'm going to sit. It's like my dog. I had to teach him when he was a puppy, I'm like, you have to sit and
And we have to do that with ourselves, because I feel like we have that sometimes like that puppy brain that we just want to push all the buttons and we want to do all the things like meditate. I can't meditate, but really, for me, it's I don't know what I would do without it.
and I'm trying, we're all trying to be a little bit better than we were the day before, but usually by four o'clock I'm like, man, I've got to apologize. I didn't stick to my schedule. I didn't drink enough water, but you know what I can do.
I can sit for two minutes. And breathe all the way in and all the way out. Yeah. That's beautiful. Thank you so much. I know that, myself being a trauma survivor and experiencing the adult symptoms [00:25:00] of CPTSD, anxiety and depression and hypervigilance, like these things are I'm very familiar with.
And what meditation has really to my life is, When I suffer a lot of resentments, and a lot of resentments are coming up, it really helps me to sit in it and to ask myself, am I being really judgmental right now? Am I being really critical? Are these judgments or these criticisms that are coming up, are they accurate?
And if not, how can I reframe that? And so for me, it's really allowed me to observe like how my mind really works and to see that my mind is not always correct. In fact, it can be wrong quite often, right?
Really recognize that and oh, okay, that's my fear talking right now and that's not [00:26:00] necessarily reality and, to take a breath and take a moment, so I personally just, it's been such a lifeline for me in my Development and my growth.
Thank you. And it does give, I think about I feel like we say this in yoga, but it's this bank account that you make your deposits in, whether it's your two minutes or 20 minutes, it's like you're building up this savings account and then when you really need it.
Those moments, like my critical moments of myself, other people, they should be doing it this way. I can't believe, we've invested so much. And I want to remind people that just because you didn't meditate today, doesn't mean you can't just stop.
And think about and feel that from the investment that you've put into yourself, I do believe we get a cumulative effect of over time, a lower blood pressure, [00:27:00] even on ADHD medication and the amount of caffeine that I have in my body on a consistent basis. Every time I get my blood pressure taken, they're like, how do you do it?
And I'm like. It's meditation. and really one of the I'm proud of it. And I have a lot of coffee. A lot of tea. I do not drink anymore. And I'm on a stimulant medication. But you're able to stay grounded.
I can stay grounded. And if I get a little bit angstyI'm like, okay, you can take some breaths. Even though you're driving or even though you're in a waiting room and it's uncomfortable and you're up next, we can always dip into that bank account. That's perfect. Yeah. Really building up the positive thoughts to support the positive beliefs, to take over those old limiting beliefs that we hold on to. So I was like the meditation really gets into us. I don't know if that made any sense, but it's the meditation with it. We can catch [00:28:00] ourselves and we can create that pause before we really act like a fool sometimes, or say the thing, or send that email with your middle finger that you really probably don't want to send.
Yeah, it's going to keep you from doing that. Yeah, meditation has been a big part of my personal emotional and mental intelligence, right? It really does help. It's such a beautiful thing. Should we switch gears and talk about some DBT skills? I would love to.
I have so many questions, because I know nothing. I'm so glad that we're talking. Do we want to do a reintroduction or just want to keep going? I can introduce myself and why I am so passionate about dbt and sharing it. Okay. I'll try to keep it quick.
So Mandy I know absolutely nothing about dbt. I would love to know all the things, however, I'm going to get you to just describe first of all, how you got into it, what it [00:29:00] is and how we can, learn more or use it ourselves. Awesome. I'm excited to share with you.
DBT, or Dialectical Behavior Therapy, is something that is quite unique. I had done CBT, or Traditional Talk Therapy, or Cognitive Behavior Therapy, for over 15 years. And as much as there was value in that it did not teach me new skills. on how to behave and communicate differently in my relationships.
So I kept exhibiting old bad behaviors that were damaging to relationships, right? So backing up a little bit, the reason that I found dialectical behavior therapy was because four years ago, I found out that my mom is diagnosed borderline personality disorder. And I'm the oldest of five in my family, and having a mom that [00:30:00] suffered a really life changing mental health disorder it really impacted our family.
It really impacted me, Essentially what BPD is, and I do actually think that's a terrible name for the diagnoses, and as much as diagnoses can be very helpful, I also think that they can be a hindrance, because I don't think, like a stigma, maybe, yeah, we don't need to be stuck into it either, supposedly according to, in the world of psychology, BPD or Borderline Personality Disorder is not curable, but that has not been my experience.
When I was co hosting courses, the gentleman that I co hosted and taught the courses with, his daughter was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, but after two years of DBT or dialectical behavior therapy, she no longer had the characteristics of BPD. So she no longer [00:31:00] was a candidate.
I totally disagree. But, let me just say I'm not a therapist. I am a person who grew up with trauma. That manifested into symptoms of complex PTSD as an adult. A lot of that came from having a mom who, borderline personality disorder, experienced a lot of childhood trauma and it made her an emotional burn victim.
And so she's always just under the surface about to Emotionally dysregulate, right? It's really difficult for her to stay grounded and to stay calm. And unfortunately, because of the trauma that she's experienced, she has this deep fear of abandonment. And because of this deep fear of abandonment, she will actually abandon others first.
And so it makes her behaviors. quite hurtful. And so for being in a close relationship, either a family relationship or like a partner relationship with someone who struggles with this my heart goes out to you because it's a challenging [00:32:00] thing, but I do know that there is hope and there are skills and this can be approached and helped in such a beautiful way.
Even though I have never been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, I definitely had some of the similar symptoms, right? Like I was raised by a mom who had all nine of the characteristics. And so unfortunately, that was, she's my main caregiver. And I learned my beliefs from, right?
Like that men aren't trustworthy, that people are going to abandon you first, so you need to abandon them before they have a chance to do it, right? And these are all really bad beliefs, right? Like they're really damaging and they're not going to create a healthy relationship if you believe these things, right?
So anyway, learning that she struggled with this and knowing that ultimately all I can do is learn myself. I enrolled in a program that is where I learned the dialectical behavior therapy skills. [00:33:00] And because they were so transformative in my life, I began to volunteer and co host and teach for the nonprofit organization that taught me them originally.
And they're so powerful. It's life changing. And obviously, an eight week or week or week course is not going to change your life like that. But what it is going to do is it's going to offer you some skills, some tools that you can then go into the world and have this tool belt of skills.
That you can, communicate differently take care of yourself in a different way. So you can stay more emotionally regulated. So that way you can express, your true feelings and desires and really grounded way and not being in this, state of, heightened emotion where it's really difficult to get our point across, yeah. Does that answer your question? Yeah. I honestly think that DBT or dialectical behavior therapy should be taught to everybody. I think that they should teach it in junior high and high school. I think that I like to call them fundamental [00:34:00] life skills.
I really do. I was going to say life skills. They really are. It's how to get through life and Manage your emotions and communicate. All the basic things that not everybody gets. A lot of people don't get it. So the dialectic is believing that two seemingly opposing things are true at the same time.
Okay. And I'll give you an example to help understand. But, going back to, Cognitive distortions. So our trauma brain, when we get triggered, we can go into like black and white thinking, catastrophizing, like where we just catastrophize everything Oh, everything's, it's the worst.
I think we froze, and I don't know why. You're okay. Okay I don't know if this picked up anything, but can you start again on Yeah. How you were going to explain it? Yeah, so I'll start so the dialectic, [00:35:00] I'll start there. Yes, perfect. So the dialectic is understanding that two seemingly opposing ideas are true at the same time.
Okay. Now that helps us when we're struggling with these cognitive distortions such as, so when we get triggered and we go into emotion mind, we can go into black and white thinking. We can go into all or nothing thinking, right? We can go into this catastrophizing where just everything is a huge major deal, right?
We turn this tiny little mole hill into a huge mountain. We can minimize good things. We can maximize bad things, right? Like these cognitive distortions can cause a lot of damage in our lives. And so meditation and mindfulness are so helpful. Catching ourselves like, Oh, I'm triggered, right?
Like I'm super upset. My mind's going wild. And then coming back to the dialectic and trying to come to this middle [00:36:00] path, essentially. So I'll give you an example from my personal life, right? Because of my experiences I get really sensitive when my partner is mad at me.
If my partner is mad at me, it triggers me and I can't really handle it. And this is something I'm working on and I've gotten a lot better at But in the past, if my partner is upset at me, I go into this extreme thinking of Oh my God, it's the end of the world. We're going to break up.
I'm going to have to move out. I go into this like really, bad. Catastrophizing, almost, thoughts. I need to tell myself in those moments, the dialectic would be, he can be mad at me or frustrated with me or upset. And he can still love me. Like those two things can be true at the same time. And that's so important for our trauma brain to come to that middle ground it's okay he can be mad, and he can still love me, and that helps to bring me back [00:37:00] into my body, and take me out of that crazy catastrophizing thinking.
Wow. It does need to be taught everywhere because I think, a lot of people do. I know that on a spectrum, a lot of us have had different types of trauma or we're really sensitive for one reason or another, but I think that is so beautiful. Like it doesn't have to be catastrophic thinking.
Just like what you said that's cool. Yeah, the meditation and the mindfulness help to catch us when we're triggered. Cause sometimes we don't know, we don't even realize. We're just in the grips of anger or this this mental cycling and we don't even recognize like, Oh my gosh, I'm super triggered right now, and that's something that I've had to learn. And I know that most of us, that's probably a thing, right? It's not like we're all, we're here having this conversation because it's so important for us to take notice of these [00:38:00] things. Some say it's the mirror, Judith Orloff says it's mirror neuron system. Like we just have a heightened mirror neuron system or complex PTSD, or probably a little bit of everything. So with sensitive people or empaths, do you have any simple skills or techniques that you would suggest to somebody who's really sensitive?
Yes. The number one skill that you could take away from dialectical behavior therapy is radical acceptance. And that one is a big one, right? Because a lot of times when we're upset and we have all these negative emotions, it's because we are judging that things should be different, right? We're judging that things should be different and they shouldn't be this way, right?
We're making these judgments like life shouldn't be [00:39:00] this way. It shouldn't be this hard, right? And that disagreeing right there, that's causing us pain. And what happens when you can shift gears and you can just sit in radical acceptance? So for example, with my mom I had to radically accept that she may never want to get help.
And that was something that was really hard for me. I wanted to demand that she go to therapy and that she enroll in a program, right? Like you need to do this and this isn't just for you. This is for all of us. And like all my judgments are being poured out onto her on what I think she has to do.
And her life is her own life. She gets to do what she pleases. And so if she never gets help, am I always going to be upset? And that's a choice, right? And so I have to realize that if I want peace in my heart, I have to just accept the fact that [00:40:00] she may never get help.
The beautiful thing about life is sometimes it works out because guess what? She's actually getting a lot of help right now and she's doing really good and I'm so proud of her. But this has been a long road and there lots of years that she was not willing to look at any of that stuff.
And she finally is. whether that was I have no clue, but I'm just grateful that she's doing it for herself, radical acceptance I think is really important.
This is something that you carry with you, but this is also part of the dialectic is radically accepting. It is what it is. But still wanting to make change, wanting to put efforts towards improvement. So accepting that things are the way that they are, but still wanting to put forth effort to make a positive change.
But having both of that, having a balance and not letting it get out of it. I love the balance piece, because I think that, [00:41:00] I think again, that's just what the meditation also it's just, it's always going to be a little bit up and down. But it's just not going to be as wildly up and down as it could be, or as it maybe once was in the past.
Yeah. I had another question for you. Oh with boundaries, how would Something like dbt and boundaries go together or is that part of it's a really good question so It's pretty complicated question actually but what I have found is and everyone's gonna have their own sort of set of boundaries and what they're willing to deal with or not deal with, right?
And for me struggling with, a trauma background, it was really hard for me to know is it healthy to expect this or is this crazy of me to [00:42:00] expect this, And I read this in a book. It was The Yoga Sutras by BKS Iyengar, and he talked about protecting your peace and that really resonated with me is it disrupting my peace and if it is disrupting my peace.
Do I really need to do this thing? Like how important is it that I do this thing? And if it's disrupting my piece, is there a way that I could perhaps take it out of my life or shift gears? So maybe we could allow the peace in our heart to be this standing point that we ground on,
Holding to our boundaries, right? Let's say, for example, with parenting and my son and he needs to be home, by midnight. how important is it to me that he's home by midnight? What's my boundary, What's your limit? So is my limit, if he's five [00:43:00] minutes late, that's it. He doesn't get any more privileges this is all personal. This is just a very personal thing that you get to. Create for yourself, right?
But what I have found to be helpful is it disrupting my peace? Am I genuinely concerned about my son's safety and is that why I want him home at a certain time? So is that boundary in there for a reason Not only so I can get to bed on time, but I know that he's home safe before I get to bed.
Is that something that's really important to me? Actually yes, it is. So that is going to be a limitation I put with him, right? Like I need you to be home before I go to bed. But this is all personal, right? And if it doesn't disrupt your peace, is it really something that you need to worry about?
what would be an example that you could pull from? Like anything thatprotecting my peace. So another one is like spending time with family. Like we all know that spending time with family can bring up some emotions, [00:44:00] right?
to protect my peace, what I do is I make sure to. I have a car and keys. So if I need to leave, I can leave and I make sure to park somewhere that I'm not getting blocked in. And then that way, if I need to leave, I can just gracefully be like, okay, and I'm out of here and I'm going to go.
That is so interesting because I was going to bring up if it came across like empaths. Feel or sensitive people feel overwhelmed in social situations that are, just a lot going on because for me, I have to balance my alone time with people time.
And that is what I learned from Judith Orloff. She's take your own car. And if you like, be really firm on that, that you can leave when you need to leave, if you're getting too overwhelmed. So we are totally on the [00:45:00] same page with that, it actually gives me a little bit of freedom instead of feeling like I'm backed into a corner or trapped.
in a social situation that I am incredibly uncomfortable with. it goes the same with, relationships in your family or relationships with your partner, is it disrupting your peace?
And is there a way that you can ask for a certain thing or a certain limitation, certain boundary, or whatever it is that you need so that it doesn't disrupt your peace. So my husband also works at home and I work at home.
So there's some days that it's like, he's got all the energy and I'm like, that's too much. And sometimes. We have a compromise where he's really frustrated working or I'm really frustrated, but we don't want to be in the house. A lot of times this compromise is going and just walking.
We don't even have to talk about [00:46:00] the situation. And I will say nine times out of ten, once we get back, the problem is not really that big of a deal, but I think we both had to decide hey, when it gets I like calling it staticky in the house.
What are we going to do? What is our good rule of thumb what is our plan? So the thing that's not even about the other person, we're taking it out on the other person. Either one of us will go for a walk or usually we'll both go together. But it's not really so much of a boundary, but it's an agreement.
Hey, when this happens, And it will at some point, maybe not every day, but a couple of times a week. There's something that's frustrating because lifeI love having a toolkit available, whether it's meditation.
I have a Reiki practice or Hey, you're in the yoga world. You know how important that is. I'd love to share what's called the dear man.
[00:47:00] So it's a dbt skill that I use all the time. I think it is really fantastic. It really helps. So one of the things when we are learning to establish healthy boundaries or healthy limitations with people in relationships is. Learning how to communicate effectively, right? So learning how to communicate your emotions, your thoughts, your desires, right?
In an effective manner that doesn't make the other person feel attacked, right? So If there's a situation that you're wanting to ask for something or assert something like, okay, maybe a situation happened and you were just not okay with how it went down, right? Or you're trying to ask something around You know to someone that could potentially be really a sensitive topic.
So Dear man, so i'll go through it and then i'll give you a real life example. So D [00:48:00] is describe so describe what happened with all the facts No emotions, no judgments, right? Just here's the facts. This is what happened and then Express how this made me feel? So this thing happened and this is how it made me feel.
And then ask or search. So then you can ask, would it be possible if next time you would dah, or, the next time this happens, Would you be willing to X, Y, Z, right? And then R is reward. So what's the positive effect that will happen if you do what I'm asking you to do?
Offer that reward. So if you're able to do this, that would really help in, creating more trust in our relationship or, offering whatever that reward is going to be. And then the man part is doing it with mindfulness. So being aware that you both need to [00:49:00] be in a grounded calm state, right?
If someone is triggered, this is not the time to have a conversation, right? Appear confident. So when you're having this challenging conversation and you're asking for your needs to be fulfilled, you appear confident and make eye contact and don't be bashful and don't make apologies. You don't have to apologize for how you feel,
you get to say, this is how I feel. And this is how I would, prefer that it would happen next time, and then negotiate, be willing to negotiate, be willing to go back and forth and maybe compromise on whatever it is that you are asking for. So I'll give you a real life example.
how I found out that she, was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder is that we moved in together and I lived with her and so the facade of a relationship that I [00:50:00] thought we had Dissolved and a lot of behaviors started happening that I was very confused about anyway fast forward.
So Living together wasn't healthy for either of us. It was not a positive or productive experience. And so we put the townhome on the market after two years. And in trying to sell the townhome, I normally would never go into the basement level, which was her level, because that was her area.
But because we're getting ready to sell and the realtor is coming to do a tour, I walked downstairs and there was a kitty litter box that was overflowing with feces and cat pee and all that stuff. Okay. And I was really concerned about bringing this up. I thought that it would go into a Huge, traumatic fight, right?
And I was like, oh no, like how am I gonna talk about this [00:51:00] thing and not make her feel offended? And so what I did is I, and this is great to do in a text message, because you can edit it to your heart's desire, right? And take out all the violent language and make it very non violent, right?
Hey mom, I was preparing for the realtor to come and do a walkthrough, and I noticed that there was some cat pee and poo around the litter box and onto the carpet.
I'm really concerned that this is going to inhibit our ability to sell the townhome. would it be possible for us to get the carpets cleaned and maybe get like a special solution for the cat pee?
if we were able to get the carpets cleaned, I think we'd have a much better chance at selling the town hall. So guess how that was received. Wow. That was just like, it was beautiful. It was received. really well. She didn't get her feelings hurt. I didn't feel like I [00:52:00] had to attack her.
She didn't feel attacked. I was able to get my point across and ask for what I needed without her feeling judged or harshly criticized. And she responded in a really positive way and was like, Oh, you're right. that would be great. And I will totally pay for that.
And I'll schedule it for Monday. So not only can you use this in like personal life, but you can use this at work to like, this is such an amazing tool.
Dear man. And so the M a N is mindfulness. Just like how you're Approaching it. So be mindful of the situation, right? Be mindful because you wanna, when you're having these conversations, you want to make sure that both parties are calm and emotionally regulated. If someone's triggered, this conversation is not going to be productive.
And so when someone is emotionally heightened or triggered, it's really important to pause. And to turn to self care, go distract yourself, [00:53:00] calm yourself down, get yourself regulated again, and then we can approach this conversation. And part of that has to do with the emotion mind and the rational mind, and how if we are really engaged in our emotion mind, we quite literally cannot access it.
the dialectic helps to bring the two together so we can find our wise mind and our wise mind is the hybrid of both. And that's what meeting in the middle.
It feels really like you are getting as close to a neutral spot as you can, like communicating and. Not have these really, touchy subjects, especially if you're really close, our tone can set somebody off.
Absolutely. Now this is great. Wow. So the other person Mindfulness of tone. That's another part of it. So the other person doesn't even have to. No, they [00:54:00] don't need to know about it at all. It's
just a way to frame your messaging, it's helpful. It's super helpful. Yeah. It's a good, and I'm sure there's more skills than just the dear man skills with dbt. That's just one little gem, one little nugget. There's lots.
Not easy, but it's doable I have one more question. It's about empaths. The role that radical acceptance can play when empaths, we often feel really powerless. We really feel like, okay, I'm in three different, very big Facebook groups for empath, just to get the temperature of what's going on out there, girl.
It's a lot of drama. I'm like, Oh my gosh, there's a lot of stuff going on. And I know Judith Orlov talks about an energy vampire ish kind of thing. I know I don't really like to use that phrase, but everybody gets the picture, whether it's a drama queen or someone [00:55:00] is really being victim to get attention or just being downright mean or something.
anybody who's sensitive or an empath, how would they use this radical acceptance? No, this is a great question. So yeah, it helps us to let go of the assumptions that we make because we make these assumptions, right? We assume Oh, they should be having this way or they should be acting this way.
And we're assuming we're making assumptions, we're making judgments, right? And so the radical acceptance really helps us to let go of that. Also the expectations that we hold, cause we can sometimes, have these expectations. You're my mom, so you should be, cooking my food and cleaning my bed or whatever, right?
Or you're the wife and you should be making dinner every day. You're the husband and you should be paying all the bills. Like these are these expectations, these assumptions that Are they correct? And are [00:56:00] they serving the relationship? Are they serving you? Are they serving you in the way that you're behaving or communicating in your relationship?
Because if you just assume that it's your job to take care of the car. And if you're making assumptions as far as Well, yeah, that's a good one. So like my partner, my husband, if he, he does change the oil and if I just assume like, Oh it's your job. You need to change the oil, right?
Is he going to feel appreciated? Is he going to want to do that? Probably not. But if we realize Oh, I can't just assume that he's going to do that. I have to ask. Hey babe would you have any chance to, change the oil in the next week and, oh yeah, that'd be great.
I'll make time for that in a couple of days or whatever. And obviously it goes both ways. We do things for each other, but it really just the radical acceptance really helps us to. Just catch ourselves when we are making these assumptions and we are, when we deal with these expectations of people, it's is it okay that I'm expecting all of this?
Or maybe [00:57:00] am I being out of line it's just that pause are they really supposed to do this on my timeline? And I know when it comes to trauma survivors, it can be really hard to accept the fact that you experienced what you experienced, right?
A lot of times if it was dealt with, if you experienced it in childhood, there is no excuse. And you shouldn't have experienced that. However, holding onto that doesn't allow you to move forward. Holding onto this that never should have happened and they never should have done that.
Like then it just keeps us stuck, and how do we get out of that stuckedness it's by just radically accepting that, like that happened. Okay. So the big thing that happened, just say when you were 10 or when I was 10. This person did this thing and it's still bugging me to this day and it will Unfortunately, [00:58:00] that's how trauma works, right?
It like keeps coming back, part of the symptoms or flashbacks and Maybe nightmares, right? And so it can be very pervasive And I know that this can be a very challenging subject and not everyone's gonna appreciate maybe me saying that you have to radically accept because and let's not get it confused with forgiveness either, but let's, focus on what it does for your heart?
Don't think about what it does for them, right? Think about what it does for your heart. If I forgive them for what they did, like granted, what they did was wrong, but if I allow myself to forgive them, then I allow myself to let go of those hateful, resentful feelings that come up.
And so it's more for me, right? If I could forgive him. Then I can selfishly live in peace. And it's not, it's not selfish. It's self love. It's just one little thing to think about. It's a step to, nobody wants to live in [00:59:00] pain.
And a lot of us are tired of it. Yeah. And how do we stop reliving it? Part of our internal heart to the core of our core has to just accept the fact That happened and that helps to just ease the pain just a little bit, like obviously it's not going to take it away, but it helps to ease it.
That's been my experience anyway. At the very least, it's a layer of feeling not so terrible, but I think it's something that just like with meditation or any other practice, once you practice it over and over, you get better at it, and then those layers probably fall away.
I'm guessing I've never done this practice. It just sounds amazing. How long have you been doing this? The dbt. I first learned dbt in 2020. So four years now. This is a fascinating topic. I think I've heard of it. [01:00:00] I'm surprised it hasn't come across, I would love to share a little bit about, so Marsha Linehan, Dr.
Marsha Linehan is the one who created dialectical behavior therapy. And she does research and she's in the medical world, right? She has her psychology degree, but she also became a Zen master. And she pulled a lot of her concepts from what she learned from her becoming as a master.
And so the number, cause there's four components in dbt and the first one is mindfulness and that's a huge piece, right? And so I think it's so beautiful. it is being used in the world of psychology, but it's just this little bit of Eastern medicine that's trickling through,
the wonderful thing about Marsha is that she's been able to actually do the research to have the statistics to show that these things are actually really powerful and really beneficial. it takes it out of [01:01:00] the woo realm and makes it a real tangible tool.
And a real life kind of scenarios. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Wow. Okay. I need, I, people can hear more about this through, you have a YouTube channel. We both do. So we're just, we're in it together. Yeah. So my YouTube channel is holistic evolution, Shala, and I do have a lot of videos on there that talk about dbt.
And I would love for you to, check them out.
And at the heart of hearts, I really believe in my message and I really believe that this will help others, women that struggle with the symptoms of trauma, such as, trust issues, relationship issues, all these things that come with it I really know that these things help. And so that's what helps me to have a little confidence, knowing that you're doing good work out there. I think that's the thing
Can someone benefit from what we're [01:02:00] talking about? And a hundred percent. Yes. Yes. I sure hope so. Anything else? Does it feel complete or does anything else that we're missing? No, I think we could talk all day. That's the thing. We could talk about a bazillion different topics. Let's see.
No, I think we covered it all. I think we did. This is lovely. Okay. You can reach me at rachelkhudson. com and your website is once again, it's holisticevolutionshallah. com. And let's both link each other up in the descriptions and all the things. Perfect. Thank you so much. Thank you, Rachel.
Thank you. And I will see you next time.
